"I am not a feminist, but I sure as hell feel like spitting fire when I read stuff that makes women look like lesser writers or ‘marginalized writers’ just because of their biological bodies, therefore they need special help."
Hear, hear! Feminism is all about reducing women to a marginalized victim class. It's the opposite of empowering.
That said, there is a reality for a lot of women who work outside the home, especially here in the US, where they have to come home from work and still be the primary caregivers and homemakers. Often that work is not shared equally, so the working class guy CAN come home and write, whereas his wife comes home and starts her other job. It can be especially challenging for those women to find the time and energy for any kind of creative pursuit.
I don't know what article you're referencing or what it said, I just wanted to address that point and acknowledge those women. But having done that, I would also point out that I wrote my first novel mostly at work on my lunch hour. Where there's a will, there's a way.
Your last sentence says it all. I’ll risk to sound like a bitchy feminist again, but if in this day and age a women settles for the role of the caregiver and does everything around the house after her day job, that women needs to get her head straight, put her big girl pants on and make her hubby do half the work at home (that’s probably why my house is a mess - I ain’t doing chores, and hubby ain’t doing it either…😂). If a woman allows her partner to be lazy - well, either she needs to change her attitude and stand up against the injustice or she needs to change her partner. Do not take the “second job” on your shoulders, girls! You don’t have to! The job around the house and kids needs to be split 50/50, if you settle for injustice - blame yourself.🤷♀️ yes, I’m harsh, but we need to love ourselves!
Agreed...writing is an area where the only thing that matters is ability...the ability to tell a story or explain a concept or write a poem. The sex of the author has nothing to do with that.
Preach! I dipped into the same article you reference, mystified by the title. I didn’t bother to finish it. Just clickbait and no substance, IMO. I’m nearly twice your age and have experienced plenty of gender-based marginalization, but never as a writer. Or, to be more specific, my work has never been marginalized. If the work is good, it’s good. And the reverse. One’s sex has nothing to do with it.
Fun fact: The first named writer whose work survives is Enheduanna--a Sumerian priestess.
Another fun fact: We don't actually know who wrote the Homeric epics. Ancient Greeks believed it was a guy named Homer, and we still use his name for convenience, but really, we have no clue. The ancient "biographies" of Homer differ so much in detail and come so long after his supposed life that there's very little chance any of them contain any real information.
Why is this relevant? Because some critics believe that the Iliad and the Odyssey may be by different people. Their resemblances may be due more to conventions of epic writing at the time than to common authorship. (Those are the only two surviving samples from that era, so who knows?)
But most of the critics who argue for different authorship believe the Odyssey was written by a woman. I won't go into all the reasoning here, but a plausible case can be made.
It is at least possible that many other early literary contributions by women remain unknown to this day because they had to write anonymously or under a pseudonym.
One thing is clear. Even in societies in which men are given a completely dominant role, women still managed to become authors.
Hi Katherine! Thank you for your essay. I have that issue as well, I have been called a bro. I am a beginner when it comes to writing, l like writing when my head doesn’t go all over the place. I went to school for computer science. I love learning from others that are professional. I am a woman who would love a career in writing. I would love to write an article on respect and morals, to no avail, my research would be very poor. 🤣. My personal ways are conservative too. Somehow we seemed to be in a class by ourselves. Thanks for the rant! It’s very helpful. Lee or Lisa
Kathrine, I agree. Writers, incorporated, here in Substacki-land. Glad to write our hearts and souls, our life experiences, our sorrows, our joys and all in between. I am not a feminist either. Just want to write and communicate to all who might want to read my words. I appreciate your bluntness. From one blunt to another, I salute you. WEW
I too have been mistaken for a man from my writing, more than once. And once a friend read something of mine that had been published in a magazine out loud to her husband and he said ‘We must invite him to dinner!’ And she said ‘Ros is a woman, not a man’ and he said ‘Well she can’t have written it herself, then, because women aren’t funny’, and that, my friend, is the kind of shit, or technically speaking, potential barrier, that ‘women writers’ sometimes have to put up with ‘men writers’ (how ludicrous that sounds) don't. Yes, though, 100%, we’re all just writers, thanks.
My current favorite quote: "You know, I've always considered women to be people." It's ridiculous that we're still having to have this same conversation over and over again. I applaud your persistence. I'm too tired, I think
How refreshing. Preach!! I live in a Staunchly Feminist City™ where people are forever trying to pity-hire you based on your (assumed!) Victim Cred™. NOBODY gets it when I turn down opportunities on grounds of “I don't play in the girls' league.” They usually assume—laughably!—that “it's the internalized misogyny talking.” They can't even start to fathom what an egregious misunderstanding that is. The whole interaction never fails to melt their brains.
Fuck it, I'm subscribing to this 'stack, and to anyone in this comment section who's expressed support for this position. Not because I Support Women™ (though I do...!), but because I want to support anyone chasing excellence and choosing AWAY from the hypocrisy, cheap opportunism and shitty excuses that breed mediocrity. Here's to you, my dears. Suffer no fools, and keep cranking out the good shit! 🔥🔥🔥
I would like the name of your kick-ass hard military SF writing friend.
About a decade ago I read a series by a woman who fit that description. I think she's Canadian. Tanya...? Argh. I'll google and try to find her. I LOVED her series. She was obviously a veteran and knew her stuff!
Let's not forget that one of THE --- I mean ___ T H E ___ ULTIMATE SF stories ever written, M'F'ing Frankenstein! Hello!!! was written by Mary Shelley. In basically a weekend, by the way, while they were trapped inside their holiday home due to a thunderstorm. That's kick-ass.
There's also a phrase I heard a long time ago: the soft bigotry of low expectation.
But alas the siren song of victimhood is _SO_ sweet. It's even better than sugar.
Also, a question if I may: Why is it okay to have spaces or workshops or articles etc for female writers but if I or anyone made one for male writers, everyone would fuh-REAK the eff out. Is it because of the inherently predatory male gaze and all that? And me participating in this discussion has already ruined it? I've been writing and deleting a lot of comments on here lately. This feels like another one I shouldn't post.
Oh, and by the way, I can honestly say I've read a small sample of Kathrine's work, only two stories thus far, but both were SF and both were great. Kathrine, that opening scene with the two people sending love messages over their comms devices, and the screen on one was all cracked. That was perfect. You NAILED that. I saw that image so completely that I was instantly drawn into the story. And your concern about writing in English when it's not your native language is understandable (if I had to write a whole story in French, oh mon dieu!) and I could sense it had the tone of someone writing in a second language. But it gave it a special sort of almost exotic quality that added to the story. Kind of like Solaris by Stanislaw Lem, maybe? Anyway, I really liked it.
Why? I didn’t say there’s no difference between sexes. There’s definitely a difference between the dynamics of relationships between the children and their mother, and the children and their father. Each have their own functions.
But when it comes to creative arts, like painting, writing etc., I don’t see how one’s sex matters. I have mistaken a female writer for a male here and vice versa, because the pen name was neutral. The writing itself doesn’t indicate the writer’s sex. 🤷♀️
I know…I know… I was trying to be a bit silly before coffee and messed it all up. However, I am thinking they maybe using the labels as a value proposition to attract folks who might care about things like that. On the other hand, one time, I signed up for a business class and found it was an all-women’s business class. They let me in just fine, and I had a great time learning, but it was just interesting that was not in the details. Yeah, I don’t know about all of that I just know that at times “People like us do things like this” comes into play.
Hear hear!! Say it again, louder for those in the back! 👏👏👏
"I am not a feminist, but I sure as hell feel like spitting fire when I read stuff that makes women look like lesser writers or ‘marginalized writers’ just because of their biological bodies, therefore they need special help."
Hear, hear! Feminism is all about reducing women to a marginalized victim class. It's the opposite of empowering.
That said, there is a reality for a lot of women who work outside the home, especially here in the US, where they have to come home from work and still be the primary caregivers and homemakers. Often that work is not shared equally, so the working class guy CAN come home and write, whereas his wife comes home and starts her other job. It can be especially challenging for those women to find the time and energy for any kind of creative pursuit.
I don't know what article you're referencing or what it said, I just wanted to address that point and acknowledge those women. But having done that, I would also point out that I wrote my first novel mostly at work on my lunch hour. Where there's a will, there's a way.
Your last sentence says it all. I’ll risk to sound like a bitchy feminist again, but if in this day and age a women settles for the role of the caregiver and does everything around the house after her day job, that women needs to get her head straight, put her big girl pants on and make her hubby do half the work at home (that’s probably why my house is a mess - I ain’t doing chores, and hubby ain’t doing it either…😂). If a woman allows her partner to be lazy - well, either she needs to change her attitude and stand up against the injustice or she needs to change her partner. Do not take the “second job” on your shoulders, girls! You don’t have to! The job around the house and kids needs to be split 50/50, if you settle for injustice - blame yourself.🤷♀️ yes, I’m harsh, but we need to love ourselves!
Well said! Here here! And people have thought I was a guy based on my writing, too. gigglesnort.
Substack has a huge number of women writers, from very well known to obscure, and I subscribe to a fair number of them. Do you need recommendations?
Agreed...writing is an area where the only thing that matters is ability...the ability to tell a story or explain a concept or write a poem. The sex of the author has nothing to do with that.
But then what do I know...🤷♂️
Preach! I dipped into the same article you reference, mystified by the title. I didn’t bother to finish it. Just clickbait and no substance, IMO. I’m nearly twice your age and have experienced plenty of gender-based marginalization, but never as a writer. Or, to be more specific, my work has never been marginalized. If the work is good, it’s good. And the reverse. One’s sex has nothing to do with it.
Fun fact: The first named writer whose work survives is Enheduanna--a Sumerian priestess.
Another fun fact: We don't actually know who wrote the Homeric epics. Ancient Greeks believed it was a guy named Homer, and we still use his name for convenience, but really, we have no clue. The ancient "biographies" of Homer differ so much in detail and come so long after his supposed life that there's very little chance any of them contain any real information.
Why is this relevant? Because some critics believe that the Iliad and the Odyssey may be by different people. Their resemblances may be due more to conventions of epic writing at the time than to common authorship. (Those are the only two surviving samples from that era, so who knows?)
But most of the critics who argue for different authorship believe the Odyssey was written by a woman. I won't go into all the reasoning here, but a plausible case can be made.
It is at least possible that many other early literary contributions by women remain unknown to this day because they had to write anonymously or under a pseudonym.
One thing is clear. Even in societies in which men are given a completely dominant role, women still managed to become authors.
Hi Katherine! Thank you for your essay. I have that issue as well, I have been called a bro. I am a beginner when it comes to writing, l like writing when my head doesn’t go all over the place. I went to school for computer science. I love learning from others that are professional. I am a woman who would love a career in writing. I would love to write an article on respect and morals, to no avail, my research would be very poor. 🤣. My personal ways are conservative too. Somehow we seemed to be in a class by ourselves. Thanks for the rant! It’s very helpful. Lee or Lisa
Kathrine, I agree. Writers, incorporated, here in Substacki-land. Glad to write our hearts and souls, our life experiences, our sorrows, our joys and all in between. I am not a feminist either. Just want to write and communicate to all who might want to read my words. I appreciate your bluntness. From one blunt to another, I salute you. WEW
Yes! 🙌 you say this a lot more eloquently than I would have. I read the same article and I almost cracked a screen.
Amen!
I too have been mistaken for a man from my writing, more than once. And once a friend read something of mine that had been published in a magazine out loud to her husband and he said ‘We must invite him to dinner!’ And she said ‘Ros is a woman, not a man’ and he said ‘Well she can’t have written it herself, then, because women aren’t funny’, and that, my friend, is the kind of shit, or technically speaking, potential barrier, that ‘women writers’ sometimes have to put up with ‘men writers’ (how ludicrous that sounds) don't. Yes, though, 100%, we’re all just writers, thanks.
My current favorite quote: "You know, I've always considered women to be people." It's ridiculous that we're still having to have this same conversation over and over again. I applaud your persistence. I'm too tired, I think
How refreshing. Preach!! I live in a Staunchly Feminist City™ where people are forever trying to pity-hire you based on your (assumed!) Victim Cred™. NOBODY gets it when I turn down opportunities on grounds of “I don't play in the girls' league.” They usually assume—laughably!—that “it's the internalized misogyny talking.” They can't even start to fathom what an egregious misunderstanding that is. The whole interaction never fails to melt their brains.
Fuck it, I'm subscribing to this 'stack, and to anyone in this comment section who's expressed support for this position. Not because I Support Women™ (though I do...!), but because I want to support anyone chasing excellence and choosing AWAY from the hypocrisy, cheap opportunism and shitty excuses that breed mediocrity. Here's to you, my dears. Suffer no fools, and keep cranking out the good shit! 🔥🔥🔥
I would like the name of your kick-ass hard military SF writing friend.
About a decade ago I read a series by a woman who fit that description. I think she's Canadian. Tanya...? Argh. I'll google and try to find her. I LOVED her series. She was obviously a veteran and knew her stuff!
Let's not forget that one of THE --- I mean ___ T H E ___ ULTIMATE SF stories ever written, M'F'ing Frankenstein! Hello!!! was written by Mary Shelley. In basically a weekend, by the way, while they were trapped inside their holiday home due to a thunderstorm. That's kick-ass.
There's also a phrase I heard a long time ago: the soft bigotry of low expectation.
But alas the siren song of victimhood is _SO_ sweet. It's even better than sugar.
Also, a question if I may: Why is it okay to have spaces or workshops or articles etc for female writers but if I or anyone made one for male writers, everyone would fuh-REAK the eff out. Is it because of the inherently predatory male gaze and all that? And me participating in this discussion has already ruined it? I've been writing and deleting a lot of comments on here lately. This feels like another one I shouldn't post.
Oh, and by the way, I can honestly say I've read a small sample of Kathrine's work, only two stories thus far, but both were SF and both were great. Kathrine, that opening scene with the two people sending love messages over their comms devices, and the screen on one was all cracked. That was perfect. You NAILED that. I saw that image so completely that I was instantly drawn into the story. And your concern about writing in English when it's not your native language is understandable (if I had to write a whole story in French, oh mon dieu!) and I could sense it had the tone of someone writing in a second language. But it gave it a special sort of almost exotic quality that added to the story. Kind of like Solaris by Stanislaw Lem, maybe? Anyway, I really liked it.
Tanya Huff! The Confederation series 1- 4.
Now I feel conflicted on what to do with Mother's Day and Father's Day.
Why? I didn’t say there’s no difference between sexes. There’s definitely a difference between the dynamics of relationships between the children and their mother, and the children and their father. Each have their own functions.
But when it comes to creative arts, like painting, writing etc., I don’t see how one’s sex matters. I have mistaken a female writer for a male here and vice versa, because the pen name was neutral. The writing itself doesn’t indicate the writer’s sex. 🤷♀️
I know…I know… I was trying to be a bit silly before coffee and messed it all up. However, I am thinking they maybe using the labels as a value proposition to attract folks who might care about things like that. On the other hand, one time, I signed up for a business class and found it was an all-women’s business class. They let me in just fine, and I had a great time learning, but it was just interesting that was not in the details. Yeah, I don’t know about all of that I just know that at times “People like us do things like this” comes into play.