Forgive me while I wax philosophical for a moment.
In some ways, the trad publishing submission process is a lot like the college admissions process, which I had quite a bit of exposure to as a high school English teacher.
The math is certainly similar. The single-digit acceptance percentage for trad publishing (an estimated 3% where books are concerned) is in line with the single digit acceptance percentage for highly competitive schools. (Such schools are more quiet about it now, but they used to brag openly about what a small percentage got admitted.)
Not long before I retired, I had student who was proficient in four languages (English, Italian, Chinese, Japanese). He was in mostly AP and Honors classes and aced them all, he was a top scorer on the SAT, he was a star athlete--and even he only got into his second choice school.
As one of my former students said, "It's a crap shoot. You do the best you can in school. You do the best you can on the application. And then you wait. Maybe you'll get in. Maybe you won't. Past a certain point, you have no control over that."
The only way to survive the stress is to look at the whole thing philosophically. Most people won't get into their dream school--and most people won't get traditionally published. As I used to tell my students, "Follow your dreams--but have a Plan B."
That doesn't mean don't try trad publishing. It just means don't expect that it will happen. If it does, great. If not, there are alternatives. They may not be as lucrative, though I know trad published authors who didn't do that well and indies who are making a comfortable living. But at least you may bring people some joy with your stories.
When I first started, I had dreams of bestseller lists and movie deals (as we almost all do in the beginning). I became much happier when I put those in the rearview and became content if every so often someone got a little joy from my writing. That we can all achieve. The rest will happen or it won't. All we can do is write as well as we can. Past a certain point, the rest is out of our control.
Geeze you're wise, I will be returning to this bit whenever I get vain and dream beyond my means. I plan to work towards bestseller status, but I view it as work, but am thinking even if I just impart some small measure of dreams and joy to people via my mythology I'll be happy. Truly Bill, you're a giant.
Thanks, although I’m more inclined to see myself as a dwarf (but in the positive sense of the Norse Duergar).
I’m not a big seller. Some time ago, I broke the 20,000 sales mark—which would be impressive if I’d done it in a week. Stretched out over more than ten years, it doesn’t exactly put me at the head of the pack.
But a lot of people have enjoyed my writing over the years. And there’s nothing wrong with dreaming. Happiness is more about being able to celebrate the real than it is about abandoning the dream. I’d still like to “level up.” But I pursue that by sticking with writing, trying to do my best at it, and experimenting with new things (which is how I ended up on Substack).
What I don’t do is define my worth in terms of sales figures or reviews. I’ll be happy if lightning strikes. But if it doesn’t, I’ll be happy, too.
Of course, that’s easy for me to say! I’m retired and not reliant on my writing income. It’s much harder for people in day jobs they are trying desperately to get out of or for people who have quit their day jobs and are having a hard time sustaining themselves. That has to be much more stressful!
Very true on all points though I do think 20,000 stretched over many years sounds amazing.
As to if lightning never strikes, okay so what? I myself, look forward to working a few years construction then going to level up by buying and setting up an ice-cream parlour/book-shop. I really want to sell books and write this way no matter what books are sustaining me in some form.
Experimentation is important, and being retired is something I'd argue is a point of honour as you've done your 'service' so to speak, and I really really hope you get that lightning strike as you're writing mythology which is the best stuff to write about! X)
Hahahaha, a lot of shops in French areas double over as Ice-Cream parlours, I just simply got the idea to open up a book-shop that’s also a milk-shake shop, cafe, ice-cream parlour (soft ice-cream), comic-books and hobby/boardgame shop all at once.
Start-up cost will likely be around 200k CAD or so. So I’m gonna save up, over the next few years, and leave the accounting to the gf (she’s a whiz at accounting and math), and I’ll worry about forming the business ties and getting in with the distributors.
I love this idea. One of my dreams is to be a VC so I can fund a start-up like yours and do anything I can to help get it running and make it a success beyond 1 year or 5 years so it can become one of those beloved joints people go to and one day take their kids to. Reach out to MacKenzie Scott, Jeff Bezos's ex. She's literally giving away her billions.
Kathrine, I think it's time to stop trying to go the trad publisher route. I understand why you want to do it, but in my opinion, it's destroying your soul.
You are a fantastic writer and if you took all of your stories and published them, I'd buy each and every book.
I feel for you. I'm coming back to trying to write after almost 30 years, and I am dismayed at the gatekeeping...especially in the poetry arena. I haven't submitted anything because when I look at what they publish it's obvious they'd pass on my stuff, so I can't even find a place to submit.
Thank the gods for substack and self-publishing, i guess...
You're already self publishing here on Substack. Converting your stories into books that you can sell to your fans is just good business sense.
Check out my post on my Random Thought Process stack about my publishing journey if you want to see what a huge disappointment I found trad publishing to be.
I wrote a how-to book a few years ago called Self-publishing for the Broke Author. It's a bit outdated as far as some of the resources I included vs. what's out there now, but it still has a lot of good info. If you're serious about going that route, DM me and I'll be glad to gift you a copy.
Like any other "mechanism", publishing needs its lubricant. The lubricant of publishing is money. Publishing is a great money machine. Then there are political interests and "special" friendships. Merit almost never has anything to do with it. Maybe you'll get a traditional publisher. Maybe you'll become an indie. What you don't have to do is give up. Just write. There are people out there who will read you. Write and build your opportunity one reader at a time. Your shot will come.
Been there. Both in fiction and non. Sometimes I look at substack and ask why they always promote known authors with established readership and not us small folks.
Well, that's a good question. For the publishing business, they at least have an excuse - paper publishing costs money, and like all businesses there is a financial risk in taking chances.
Thank you for sharing. It's so true that the rejection rate is impossibly high. Personally, my book-baby was too weird for traditional publishing. I didn't even bother. I wanted the story to be told as it was, and my characters did too. I hope that either trad or self publishing offers all of us a way to enjoy the creative genius that came from your wisdom.
I've tried submitting short stories to magazines a lot. Every time I get rejected from a trad publisher I can't stop asking "why?" What did I do wrong in my story?
That's why I just went self publishing with full length novels. That question "why?" and the hundreds of rejection letters asking the same question over and over are a fairly hard burden to take.
If trad publishing was truly a meritocracy, I think we could deal with the rejection. We know it's not though. The publishers all have standards of storylines they want and sometimes even specific tropes they want to appear. And we know these days they're more cautious than ever. So they're cutting out a ton of stories that should be 'good enough' for no reason at all.
So, screw em. I do self publishing. It's hard, but you've got a far larger audience than me already. I think you'll do great.
When I was 17, my girlfriend, dreamer that she was, sent some of my poems to a poetry magazine. That was 1977. The formulaic responses clearly haven't changed in 47 years.
You have already received a philosophical point of view. So I am not going to repeat it. It all depends on one person. Their likes. Their dislikes. There is no way possible, one person can read every single piece of paper that goes by their desk. It's impossible! Maybe they like a certain style of writing. Maybe they like a certain genre of writing, say comedic or suspense. If your writing doesn't hit their likes, it's instant rejection. Just find more publishers and send your work out in masses. Like one would do with their job resume. What we may think is good, someone else may think differently. Send things out with no expectations , this way you won't get hurt. Don't wear your heart on your sleeve. Save it for your writing. Someone will notice you. And when you do become famous, or noticed, you don't want anyone to be able to call you a sore loser or someone who can't control their temper.
Thank you. If I had no expectations I would be sending my work out at all. There had to be that spark of ambition, otherwise, I’d be writing a journal for my eyes only. Also, if I want my submission to be considered (not thrown into the trash on arrival), I have to put work into the query letter etc. Which takes thought, time and inevitably, emotions. If I don’t show I care about my work, why should they care at all? Of course, I don’t go over the top, it still is a formal letter.
Yes, I am a sour loser, I’m not even trying to deny it. I care about my work, that’s why I’m bitter about this whole thing. 🤷♀️
I hear you. I'm sorry 😞. I like your work. It took me time to approach you, but I finally did. I'm not saying don't care. I guess I am different. Just keep going. You may be down. But you are NEVER out!
Very sorry this happened. Great job picking yourself! I'm glad we have platforms where we have more options to pick ourselves rather than wait to be picked or not.
Forgive me while I wax philosophical for a moment.
In some ways, the trad publishing submission process is a lot like the college admissions process, which I had quite a bit of exposure to as a high school English teacher.
The math is certainly similar. The single-digit acceptance percentage for trad publishing (an estimated 3% where books are concerned) is in line with the single digit acceptance percentage for highly competitive schools. (Such schools are more quiet about it now, but they used to brag openly about what a small percentage got admitted.)
Not long before I retired, I had student who was proficient in four languages (English, Italian, Chinese, Japanese). He was in mostly AP and Honors classes and aced them all, he was a top scorer on the SAT, he was a star athlete--and even he only got into his second choice school.
As one of my former students said, "It's a crap shoot. You do the best you can in school. You do the best you can on the application. And then you wait. Maybe you'll get in. Maybe you won't. Past a certain point, you have no control over that."
The only way to survive the stress is to look at the whole thing philosophically. Most people won't get into their dream school--and most people won't get traditionally published. As I used to tell my students, "Follow your dreams--but have a Plan B."
That doesn't mean don't try trad publishing. It just means don't expect that it will happen. If it does, great. If not, there are alternatives. They may not be as lucrative, though I know trad published authors who didn't do that well and indies who are making a comfortable living. But at least you may bring people some joy with your stories.
When I first started, I had dreams of bestseller lists and movie deals (as we almost all do in the beginning). I became much happier when I put those in the rearview and became content if every so often someone got a little joy from my writing. That we can all achieve. The rest will happen or it won't. All we can do is write as well as we can. Past a certain point, the rest is out of our control.
Bill, this is so wise and helpful. Thanks a lot for sharing this analogy. It really puts things into perspective.
Geeze you're wise, I will be returning to this bit whenever I get vain and dream beyond my means. I plan to work towards bestseller status, but I view it as work, but am thinking even if I just impart some small measure of dreams and joy to people via my mythology I'll be happy. Truly Bill, you're a giant.
Thanks, although I’m more inclined to see myself as a dwarf (but in the positive sense of the Norse Duergar).
I’m not a big seller. Some time ago, I broke the 20,000 sales mark—which would be impressive if I’d done it in a week. Stretched out over more than ten years, it doesn’t exactly put me at the head of the pack.
But a lot of people have enjoyed my writing over the years. And there’s nothing wrong with dreaming. Happiness is more about being able to celebrate the real than it is about abandoning the dream. I’d still like to “level up.” But I pursue that by sticking with writing, trying to do my best at it, and experimenting with new things (which is how I ended up on Substack).
What I don’t do is define my worth in terms of sales figures or reviews. I’ll be happy if lightning strikes. But if it doesn’t, I’ll be happy, too.
Of course, that’s easy for me to say! I’m retired and not reliant on my writing income. It’s much harder for people in day jobs they are trying desperately to get out of or for people who have quit their day jobs and are having a hard time sustaining themselves. That has to be much more stressful!
Very true on all points though I do think 20,000 stretched over many years sounds amazing.
As to if lightning never strikes, okay so what? I myself, look forward to working a few years construction then going to level up by buying and setting up an ice-cream parlour/book-shop. I really want to sell books and write this way no matter what books are sustaining me in some form.
Experimentation is important, and being retired is something I'd argue is a point of honour as you've done your 'service' so to speak, and I really really hope you get that lightning strike as you're writing mythology which is the best stuff to write about! X)
An ice-cream parlour/book-shop! Now that would be a great place.
In my area, there are few book stores of any kind, Sigh!
Hahahaha, a lot of shops in French areas double over as Ice-Cream parlours, I just simply got the idea to open up a book-shop that’s also a milk-shake shop, cafe, ice-cream parlour (soft ice-cream), comic-books and hobby/boardgame shop all at once.
Start-up cost will likely be around 200k CAD or so. So I’m gonna save up, over the next few years, and leave the accounting to the gf (she’s a whiz at accounting and math), and I’ll worry about forming the business ties and getting in with the distributors.
I love this idea. One of my dreams is to be a VC so I can fund a start-up like yours and do anything I can to help get it running and make it a success beyond 1 year or 5 years so it can become one of those beloved joints people go to and one day take their kids to. Reach out to MacKenzie Scott, Jeff Bezos's ex. She's literally giving away her billions.
I would visit that...
Kathrine, I think it's time to stop trying to go the trad publisher route. I understand why you want to do it, but in my opinion, it's destroying your soul.
You are a fantastic writer and if you took all of your stories and published them, I'd buy each and every book.
I agree
I feel for you. I'm coming back to trying to write after almost 30 years, and I am dismayed at the gatekeeping...especially in the poetry arena. I haven't submitted anything because when I look at what they publish it's obvious they'd pass on my stuff, so I can't even find a place to submit.
Thank the gods for substack and self-publishing, i guess...
You're already self publishing here on Substack. Converting your stories into books that you can sell to your fans is just good business sense.
Check out my post on my Random Thought Process stack about my publishing journey if you want to see what a huge disappointment I found trad publishing to be.
I wrote a how-to book a few years ago called Self-publishing for the Broke Author. It's a bit outdated as far as some of the resources I included vs. what's out there now, but it still has a lot of good info. If you're serious about going that route, DM me and I'll be glad to gift you a copy.
If at least one reader will be happily entertained - it’s a win!
True
Herman Melville died an unknown author.
Like any other "mechanism", publishing needs its lubricant. The lubricant of publishing is money. Publishing is a great money machine. Then there are political interests and "special" friendships. Merit almost never has anything to do with it. Maybe you'll get a traditional publisher. Maybe you'll become an indie. What you don't have to do is give up. Just write. There are people out there who will read you. Write and build your opportunity one reader at a time. Your shot will come.
Been there. Both in fiction and non. Sometimes I look at substack and ask why they always promote known authors with established readership and not us small folks.
It is exhausting.
Well, that's a good question. For the publishing business, they at least have an excuse - paper publishing costs money, and like all businesses there is a financial risk in taking chances.
Never apologize for cussing. It’s like apologizing for your work. Good piece.
Thanks. It’s Sunday… I don’t feel good about cussing anytime, especially on a Sunday, but sometimes you gotta say it.🤷♀️
Solidarity. It's so hard getting knocked down all the time and you are right...the rejections always come at the worst possible times!
Thank you for sharing. It's so true that the rejection rate is impossibly high. Personally, my book-baby was too weird for traditional publishing. I didn't even bother. I wanted the story to be told as it was, and my characters did too. I hope that either trad or self publishing offers all of us a way to enjoy the creative genius that came from your wisdom.
Yeah I feel you really hard in this.
I've tried submitting short stories to magazines a lot. Every time I get rejected from a trad publisher I can't stop asking "why?" What did I do wrong in my story?
That's why I just went self publishing with full length novels. That question "why?" and the hundreds of rejection letters asking the same question over and over are a fairly hard burden to take.
If trad publishing was truly a meritocracy, I think we could deal with the rejection. We know it's not though. The publishers all have standards of storylines they want and sometimes even specific tropes they want to appear. And we know these days they're more cautious than ever. So they're cutting out a ton of stories that should be 'good enough' for no reason at all.
So, screw em. I do self publishing. It's hard, but you've got a far larger audience than me already. I think you'll do great.
When I was 17, my girlfriend, dreamer that she was, sent some of my poems to a poetry magazine. That was 1977. The formulaic responses clearly haven't changed in 47 years.
You have already received a philosophical point of view. So I am not going to repeat it. It all depends on one person. Their likes. Their dislikes. There is no way possible, one person can read every single piece of paper that goes by their desk. It's impossible! Maybe they like a certain style of writing. Maybe they like a certain genre of writing, say comedic or suspense. If your writing doesn't hit their likes, it's instant rejection. Just find more publishers and send your work out in masses. Like one would do with their job resume. What we may think is good, someone else may think differently. Send things out with no expectations , this way you won't get hurt. Don't wear your heart on your sleeve. Save it for your writing. Someone will notice you. And when you do become famous, or noticed, you don't want anyone to be able to call you a sore loser or someone who can't control their temper.
Much luck to you 😊
Thank you. If I had no expectations I would be sending my work out at all. There had to be that spark of ambition, otherwise, I’d be writing a journal for my eyes only. Also, if I want my submission to be considered (not thrown into the trash on arrival), I have to put work into the query letter etc. Which takes thought, time and inevitably, emotions. If I don’t show I care about my work, why should they care at all? Of course, I don’t go over the top, it still is a formal letter.
Yes, I am a sour loser, I’m not even trying to deny it. I care about my work, that’s why I’m bitter about this whole thing. 🤷♀️
I hear you. I'm sorry 😞. I like your work. It took me time to approach you, but I finally did. I'm not saying don't care. I guess I am different. Just keep going. You may be down. But you are NEVER out!
Good advice, we could all stand to learn.
You are in so much good and caring and wise company here, not waiting for a high school reader in a cubby hole stacking a reject pile for the bosses.
*wouldn’t
I'm sorry for the way the publishers are treating you. I hope to see your work in print someday! I hope you feel better... 💜
You got this! Keep submitting, and don’t let rejections get you down! As for the expletives, I can make a sailor blush when I’m frustrated and angry!
With luck on your next submissions!!!
Very sorry this happened. Great job picking yourself! I'm glad we have platforms where we have more options to pick ourselves rather than wait to be picked or not.