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I appreciate the fortitude to stay true to your beliefs of what art and writing is to you. None of what i say is to dissuade you, because who am I to say what writing should be.

I personally think the reasons a person finds themselves a writer are ultimately varied. For some its a passion of love or art, and others its a necessary medium of expression.

Writing is a process, that comes naturally and easy to some, and to others is a skill that needs to be honed and developed. And if, like me, you see the distance between what you want your writing to -be- vs what it -is- then the pain of perfectionism can be a very real participant in the process.

Thats usually less than fun.

So why do it at all? Why not give up in the face of discomfort?

Well because to -not- write would be yet even more painful because of a dream un-fought for.

We all approach the pen from a different path.

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But do you feel the emotional satisfaction from the writing process? Physically - oh boy… take today - my little one woke me up at 4:00 am, and would not go back to sleep. After a long day, I edited till midnight. So 4 hours of sleep, a mild headache and I don’t know how will I survive the new day not breaking down physically and mentally. I have 4 kids, so no big chance for a nap. Will I have a hard time writing? I totally will, if I even find the time for it. Do I still want to write?! Absolutely! I want to do the Microdosing flash fiction for @miguel S Tea prompt, and maybe for the Hearth theme too. Am I normal? Probably not. 7:00 am here, up since 4:00, off to cook breakfast for the family and treat myself with a hot cup of tea.

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Often - yes. Depends on the project. If I'm just free-styling morning pages or some practice like that, it feels genuinely therapeutic and *not* doing it is actually stressful.

If I'm working on a project that needs to *be* a specific thing or way - my feelings on the subject will vary a great deal on how easily the thing is coming together. I remember moments where I was writing the beginning chapters of my WIP "When Gods Dream" where I was sitting in the ski chalet constantly laughing to myself because of the absurdity of circumstances I was subjecting my main character too.

But then, many chapters down the road, where I'm trying to figure out his "next move" while being stuck in the underworld, I was experiencing deep frustration that had me wanting to throw the book across the room at a plant I hadn't watered in a week.

So I find my feelings about writing depend a lot on how the rest of my life is going at the time. Really my takeaway here is I should write more often in Ski Chalets.

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Jul 26Liked by Kathrine Elaine

It makes me think of the difference in people who are driven to do something and those who happily embrace doing something- either one can produce an amazing product. But if the question really is about finding joy in what you’re doing, not everyone is wired that way “joyful”, but they do derive their own brand of satisfaction from their pursuit- it’s all good. Feelings can’t be fabricated- they either are or aren’t. Why would people get mad over this…not a clue. 🤷‍♀️

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To me, writing is sometimes a struggle, but in the same way a puzzle is a struggle. It's fun, but sometimes frustrating. I wonder if the people saying it's like pulling teeth are really just trying to communicate that it's challenging? Good conversation starter!

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I'll risk sounding a bit preachy here. Is taking up one's cross worth it when it's obviously not so fun?

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Does it have to be a cross? I mean, if its not a question of earning a living, nobody is forced to take that cross. Why cling on to it stubbornly? Is it a sacrifice to create a good story or a stubborn, prideful delusion of a purpose, living in denial of one’s true mission in life, because one is determined to be a writer despite their heart telling they dislike writing?

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Let us broaden our perspective a bit. No cross is ever forced upon us. We don't even have to earn for a living: we can always kill ourselves, and I am pretty sure I could easily find a suicide method that will involve less pain than living for another day, even if the day is a good one. My answer to your comment would be that it is a delusion that we can fulfill our mission without suffering. Of course, suffering for suffering's sake is meaningless, but the presumption that something cannot lead to a life full of meaning if it causes suffering also seems to be gravely mistaken.

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My gut feeling to your question is that I should say 'it's not always painful', and I believe it isn't a lie, but I am having hard time remembering a specific moment when writing as a process itself was enjoyable or without pain. This must mean that it's rarely so, I guess. I love it when it gets done, though.

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What was your initial motivation to start writing?

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Nope, let us not broaden the perspective, let’s focus on the subject - creating art (or attempting to do it) in one’s spare time. Let’s not stretch it into oblivion, because I wrote about a narrow, specific theme.

The real question is - why do you personally seem to be offended by my rant? Think about it. If you dare.🙂

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In such a case, I double dare you. That would be a fair game as I ponder your question, right? I ask you to think about what you could have achieved if you had avoided suffering less. Now looking at my personal life, I do not create art in my spare time. I chose not to keep a full time job and am still trying to figure out a way to cut down even more the hours that I do not spend on writing. To me, writing is the work, and other things including the day job is a way to keep the work.

Meanwhile, this is not intended as a personal attack, but a comment on something I cannot understand. I honestly cannot believe someone is serious about something unless he or she is making sacrifices for it, as in enduring hardships in its process, giving up other things, etc. I am not saying that having fun is bad, obviously.

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So you do not enjoy writing as a process at all?

Of course, I have made sacrifices to write - the time I could and should spent more productively, playing with my kids, for example. Finally focusing on getting a driver’s licence (which would make my husbands life much easier, thus improve my marriage), BUT writing as a process emotionally is pleasant on days I’m not inspired and a joy when I am inspired.

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Writing for me is a two-part process. First is my need to record a thought or argument. Then, I go back, amplify, adjust, correct, re-read and hone it again. That's the part I truly love. The editing.

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I'm absolutely with you. I'm one of the "writing is like pulling teeth" crowd. There is no story inside me burning to be let out, but there are some pretty cool story ideas. Some of them need to be flogged into submission, some need to be abandoned. But some of them, once bled onto the paper, can be massaged and shaped and EDITED into something amazing. God bless the people for whom the words flow effortlessly, but that ain't me.

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I'm on the fence. I very much enjoy the writing process myself. But I can also understand why people are willing to put up with a process they don't like to get an outcome they do. One of my friends uses pregnancy as an analogy. For her, the only fun part of pregnancy is anticipating the baby. Who would put up with all that inconvenience--and pain at the end--otherwise? The process itself isn't a constant joy, but the baby makes the whole thing worth it.

Also, I don't enjoy marketing, but I make myself do some, anyway.

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Yes, the physical/technical trouble of writing I don’t enjoy, but I was referring the emotional satisfaction of the writing process itself.

Hehehe, the baby analogies… if one might say they love having kids, but hate sex, well… it’s tragic.😂

I agree with your friend - pregnancy, childbirth is not pleasant physically, yet emotionally it was euphoria. Same with writing, technical stuff surrounding it is annoying, but emotionally the writing process is and should be pleasant. I think the result reflects it as well. A story written enjoing the process flows, while the one “suffered through” reads as such.

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Kathrine: How many writers did you ask, “Hey, I didn’t like reading your story. By chance, did you push through emotional suffering not wanting to writing it?” 😅

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(A heavy sigh) Those who admitted not-liking the writing process when commenting my initial statement (not even reading the whole interview it came from) were quite enough.

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Thanks for the reply. Understood, you had quite an initial conversation. I also understand this isn’t a science experiment or poll. I’m just curious how you developed the correlation between works you didn’t enjoy reading and the emotional struggles of their authors? Did you sample their writing?

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Hmmm...

Hmm, hmm, hmm...

Yes. Yes this one warrants a proper response. The wheels are turning and the words are being minted. Worry not, it shan't be mean and we'll still remain fast friends. I've simply hit on another lens to look through.

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Jul 26Liked by Kathrine Elaine

If you're going to hate it, you'd best be really really good at it.

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I reckon that there is an element whereby the actual act of writing can be painful - holding the pen - learning to touch type. Like playing the violin - I have fairly well forgotten all these things but I have seen them in some of the young people I have tutored when I realised that they weren't prepared to put in the hours to practice and improve, however, expressing yourself - that is something else and how could it not be enjoyable?!

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Even the talented need practice. Practice is the foundation that separates mucking about for fun(which is fine in its place) and becoming an artisan of a given field.

In weird tragedi-comedy, current societies steer away people from the growing pains of practice with instant gratification, yet at the same time, dogged video game grinding or trolling is still determination that could be channeled into practice.

Of course, a complete void of talent lengthens practice to absurd unfeasible amounts of investment, but such crippling cases are only somewhat more common than savants, and so long as one understands one's place, it's fine to produce horrifically bad stuff as a hobby, probably best not to show it to the world though.

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Jul 26Liked by Kathrine Elaine

I think you are just voicing your opinion. This article is like those memes that say something somewhat controversial and then and: "change my mind". Why? Mainly because they don't Think anyone or any reason can change their minds.

I love when something begins to actually form in my head so I can nearly see what I really want to write about and it really relates with the story. In general, I like to write, but I have been writing publicly only for 4 months (since April), so I haven't been really pushed or had experienced blocks. Yes, I have been writing for years, but in notebooks at home, so there were no pressure for me to write... I Think in the end that is the Problem here... But, hey, It's just my opinion.

PS: English is not my mother tongue either...

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I dislike certain types of writing. I dislike blogs, although I play the game on occasion. I prefer to tell stories but I chafe at being too busy with other things to write when I want. Something I will be taking care of in a couple of months. I need an outlet for my inner self to cut loose the demons I incurred while playing soldier for the American empire.

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Jul 26Liked by Kathrine Elaine

Wow, I get you. My reason for hating writing, is my typing skills, or lack therof. I depend heavily on editing mentors and critique groups to get it up to snuff before publication. Except here…Idepend on the kindness of those who stop to read to realize it was difficult for me and read past typos to the soul of my work.

I love storytelling Ilove sharing, but after working 12 hours at my day job in front of 8 screens I have to monitor, it is difficult to sit down at home to the same setup, only 2 screens, but still it’s hard to not take a bre@k. My writing suffers, because all I want to do is sleep. I will eventually get to the end but it takes me much longer than most people.

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Exactly - there is a certain amount of leisure necessary to even get started. I wouldn't classify writing on a monetised platform as a hobby though.

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I’m so glad it brings you so much joy! Don’t apologize for that. We all have different reasons for doing it and that’s perfectly fine.

I can’t speak for other writers but I know, for me, it is challenging sometimes. When writing my first novel, there were several really rough scenes I had to muddle through, not in the literal sense, but emotionally taxing. Dealing with some of the hard subject matter, coupled with trying to articulate it the way I want to can be very difficult.

However, none of that means I don’t love writing. Writing has been such a blessing in my life, showing me parts of myself I didn’t even know were there, helping me heal when I didn’t realize I needed healing. Is it always a happy experience? No, but it’s necessary, and I do love what the process does for me.

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Jul 26·edited Jul 26Liked by Kathrine Elaine

Love these rants! Yeah, In my opinion a vocation it does not mean you need to enjoy it or be happy about it all the time. Even in the great Epics of Homer, Odysseus even though he went down in history as a great warrior, he would much rather be home on his land farming. He went though great and terrible suffering to have the bards sing about him in their songs. I work at a big paper making plant, and I am quite good at it. But I can not say I enjoy it. I find ways to keep my interest and make sure I do good work and meet expectations for the pay, but my last day on earth, I'm not going to say I wished I made more paper towels. What we do might be some calling, urge, or feeling we may not get paid for. We feel we need to do our "calling" to provide meaning in our life or to bring about a change we seek to make. We may do a thing to avoid what Victor Frankel called "existential vacuum". I think it's a bit silly to call it a passion as at times we may not feel all that passionate but do it anyway. I wrote today because every day it's a thing I do. Not everything we are passionate about maybe good for us. My uncle Rex had a passion and love for stealing cars, and he is in jail now. We send him cards at Christmas. So maybe for me what we are called to do is both a fair and foul thing. We show up when we need to and do what need to be done if we feel like it or not. Some days I would love to roll the stupid kilns over the bank and not every load or pots looks all that great. However, if I can show up every day and do good work at the paper factory when I might not feel like it to get paid, I can also show up for myself to write and make pots when I might not enjoy or feel like it. Hobby, job, career, and vocation are 4 different things. I do not believe in writer block, as it's just a fear of writing poorly. I have never had pottery block or paper factory block at my job. Here is a video that I found helpful.

Elizabeth Gilbert on Distinguishing Between Hobbies, Jobs, Careers, & Vocation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g7ARarFNnw&t=248s

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Writer’s block was like a numb blob were emotions should’ve been. It was caused by entering a writing contest with very strick rules - a narrow theme and a fixed deadline. I hadn’t encountered something of the sort back then and I was just stunned. I wasn’t afraid, I just couldn’t write that particular piece because I was forced to. I could write anything else. And I did. Now I have learned how to work around deadlines and themes.😅

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Thanks for your comment! I was real worried I would get blasted for preaching a big sermon like a baptist preacher here, but you did great with my long-winded sermon that would have burned the roast in the oven back home from going on to long.

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I would like to know more about Uncle Rex - can even see him in a novel - love your voice.

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Jul 29Liked by Kathrine Elaine

If you’re not passionate about it, move on. If you are passionate, but struggle at times to find motivation, material, flow, etc, then those can be worked on, or worked through with practice.

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Exactly!🩶

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Jul 28Liked by Kathrine Elaine

Love it - this is a note I posted after completing a first draft of my first ever sci-fi novel…

Finally completed the first draft of my epic 180,000 word scifi novel. This has been just over a year of joy. I’ve absolutely loved every moment of the process; research, character dev, world building, technology invention and plot!!! Now for a month off before I do a full read through. Any one got any ideas on how to approach my first edit?

****

I’ve now had a month off and nearly completed my read through (no editing). I’m still in love with it and the process of writing. But, bloody hell I’ve got a load of editing and rewriting ahead of me! I wonder if I’m gonna love that as much as I did writing the first draft? Mmm! 🤷🏼‍♂️

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Jul 27Liked by Kathrine Elaine

As far as I am concerned there is far too much time spent on this question and although it is pretty light hearted, it is truly in the realm of 'first world problems'. However, genuinely - if you really don't like doing something I would say that you would be a lot better going and finding something else to occupy yourself with - is it worth it?! You only live once.

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